The New Home for the Sheet Metal Industry Forums
SheetMetalTalk
 


Go Back   Sheetmetal Talk > Sheet Metal Forums > Tinsmith Avenue

Tinsmith Avenue For those seeking knowledge on past techniques used by yesteryears tinsmiths. The history of Tinsmith goes back in time farther then this place can travel, but for those who want to explore, please share your findings here.


Share This Forum!  
 
 
     

 

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-01-2005, 01:05 PM
whitesmith whitesmith is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: n.w.arkansas
Posts: 31
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Need help on circle cutter also rivet set

4-01-05
Greetings fellas'
I have need of the advice of some of you older guys who have worked on circle cutters. Mine is an older model (1910-1940 I'm guessing) Waag( Niagara?) circle cutter. Just a circle not a RING and circle cutter.
The problem is when I cut one out the circle, it is not only not perfectly round but it has a slight burr all around the edge ( sort of a turn down but not too sharp) The circle is round except for a small "nipple" (don't laugh)
at where the cut finishes.
I tried to remedy this by shearing into the blank first about a quarter inch from the edge and then clamping the center, so I would not have a flat spot to start on, but that does not seem to help. ( If you've never used a circle shear it's a little hard to explain this, but...)
There are 2 bolts that hold the clamping head to the table and you can adjust the alignment of the head to be centered to the cutting blades.
There is also the bolt that lets you raise or lower the clamp height and the one on top that lets you adjust the tension of how tight you want to clamp the metal.
If any of you " old timers" or any of you guys who have just worked on a lot of machinery could give me any advise before I start "tinkering" I would appreciate it.
Also if any of you older fellas who have 'set' tinner's rvets before, you know what a rivet set looks like. The hole in the end is to 'set' the rivet and the concave dimple is to round up the head. What is the hole in the SIDE of set for? For years, I have been told it was for the little piece of metal that you pierced through to fall out of.
The other day I got an older sheet metal book and it said "hole for smoothing up the burr" ??
Would any of you guys know what this means?

Thanks for any info you can come up with
R. Stone- whitesmith
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-06-2005, 09:58 AM
Bud's Avatar
Bud Bud is offline
ME
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Waukesha
Posts: 2,101
Thanks: 416
Thanked 125 Times in 88 Posts
Default

I have one and it leaves a small burr as well...nothing too bad or anything to worry about, the next process, depending on what you're doing isn't affected by it. As for the the indent where the pin sets down as it is clamped..not much you can do about that...

I'm nut sure about why it's not cutting true, but if it weren't aligned properly and off center, it may dog leg a bit as you go around, the pin or center should be in line (perpendicular) to the tangent point of the cutting wheels.(makes sense to me, how bout anyone else)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-06-2005, 03:45 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

White and Bud, As I have stated in an earlier post, Iíve never owned a circle cutter but a slitter is a slitter. Are the wheels sharp or totally rounded from years of use. Distance between cutting wheels? Shim them if you can. Play in the shafts will also give you a burr. Iím willing to bet that there is a bronze sleeve bearing pressed into the casting. If you have the means to press them out they can be had from McMaster-Carr and you can hone them with a $15.00 dingle-berry hone. If there isnít any bearing and the unit was designed to run metal on metal and is egged out, you can always go to your local machine shop and have them line bore it and install the bronze bearings. Hope this helps, Bob
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-22-2011, 05:44 AM
sharpscriber sharpscriber is offline
Professional Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southern Carolina
Posts: 233
Thanks: 31
Thanked 59 Times in 41 Posts
Default Rivet set

The hole at the head face of the rivet set is of course to set the rivet tightly against the joining materials. Hit that set lightly to set the rivet. Then while pressing down on the rivet set tool you use another tool which is like a pair of pliers with the same size cutter diameter as the hole and shear off the excess rivet material. This is to give the rivet the proper length of material to properly form the rivet head with the button head form of the rivet set head. I did not have my own cutting tool made for this as my journeyman had and he would not let me use his so he made me take another rivet and use it on a set of pliers which worked well to shear off the excess rivet material.
Light hammering with lots of blows usually worked better than fewer hard blows to get the mushroom head on the rivet to look and work best.
After about a hundred of these trials on rivets the next two thousand always came out great. That's how I learned.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-22-2011, 01:46 PM
fabrk8r fabrk8r is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 50
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 9 Posts
Default

We have a niagara circle cutter. I've had to replace the cutter wheels once (I believe the machine is close to 80 years old) due to the burring of the material edge.

I'm not sure if you have a circle cutter or a slitter, but our circle cutter is not designed to cut the material in one pass. It usually takes at least 3 passes for 26 gauge, more for thicker material. I just keep a slight pressure on the tightener and as the material makes each revolution I can "feel" the cut.

Large discs of thin material will get wavy as they pass through, just the nature of the material. BTW, you can make a circle cutter cut flat rings by simply cutting the outer circumference first, then adjusting to cut the inner.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-07-2011, 09:23 PM
tinnerjohn tinnerjohn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: N.E. Ohio
Posts: 89
Thanks: 35
Thanked 20 Times in 15 Posts
Default Hole in rivet set

My dad always told me the side hole was for punching the rivet through the metal as you can see the rivet. Then use the other hole to set everything tight and start heading with a riveting hammer, then finish with the concave hole. Sounds like a lot of steps, but with practice it doesn't take long. Guess thats why pop rivets were invented and caught on. John
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-08-2011, 06:52 AM
sharpscriber sharpscriber is offline
Professional Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southern Carolina
Posts: 233
Thanks: 31
Thanked 59 Times in 41 Posts
Default

Could be used that way I guess but what about the older rivet set tools where the side hole did not go all the way through the tool on the side? With those you marked the side of the rivet and then cut it off. It was a gauge to leave only a certain amount of shank above the work so that it would fit properly in the mushroomed concave head and cause the proper fill.

If you study a few different sizes of rivet sets you can see that the holes on the sides are a certain distance from the end of the tool. The very older ones had the side hole on the short side of the tool instead of on the wider side and it did not go all the way through. That was for marking the rivet first for the proper amount of shank needed then you cut it off after you lifted it off from setting and drawing the rivet and shoulder to the work pieces.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sharpscriber For This Useful Post:
tinnerjohn (07-08-2011)
  #8  
Old 07-08-2011, 07:01 PM
cactassdupree cactassdupree is offline
Professional Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 602
Thanks: 161
Thanked 58 Times in 49 Posts
Wink machinery

Quote:
Originally Posted by ;2657
White and Bud, As I have stated in an earlier post, Iíve never owned a circle cutter but a slitter is a slitter. Are the wheels sharp or totally rounded from years of use. Distance between cutting wheels? Shim them if you can. Play in the shafts will also give you a burr. Iím willing to bet that there is a bronze sleeve bearing pressed into the casting. If you have the means to press them out they can be had from McMaster-Carr and you can hone them with a $15.00 dingle-berry hone. If there isnít any bearing and the unit was designed to run metal on metal and is egged out, you can always go to your local machine shop and have them line bore it and install the bronze bearings. Hope this helps, Bob
You have brought up one of my pet peeves. ONLY Qualified people should be allowed to operate Sheet metal equipment. From a pair of snips to circle cutters and the rest. I've seen (after the fact) a man bring his 11 year old into the shop. He watched us working and in the afternoon he took it upon himself to put a piece of 5/8/ all thread into a 10' shear, just to see if the shear would cut it. Luckily it didn't damage the blades. Kooks ( peeps that have no experince have broken a number of equipment just playing around. There should be a shop Rule in every shop Sheet Metal Workers only. A shop can be a vary dangerous place. Be safe !! dupree
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cactassdupree For This Useful Post:
sharpscriber (07-08-2011), Tom C (02-23-2014)
  #9  
Old 07-08-2011, 07:32 PM
sharpscriber sharpscriber is offline
Professional Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southern Carolina
Posts: 233
Thanks: 31
Thanked 59 Times in 41 Posts
Default

Absolutely correct and good to note your opinions about this Dupree. Safety alongside with ruining equipment are always strong points to keep the non professional, unqualified peeps OUT. I appreciate your comment.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sharpscriber For This Useful Post:
cactassdupree (07-09-2011)
  #10  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:27 PM
whitesmith whitesmith is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: n.w.arkansas
Posts: 31
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default circle shear

Boy,, I hadn't realized how long it had been since I had had posted this!
Since then..after going through some of my sheet metal machinery books and taking some advice from my old man, .. problem solved!
to get rid of the indent with the clamp I gorilla glued a couple of rough leather pads to them.
I also found that some cirlce cutters need to be offset ( the center line of the cutters and the center line of the clamping arm can't be in line ). I found some alignment marks on the swivel part of the clamp arm and lined them up. ( Some machines have the cutters swivel and the clamp is stationary.)
I also adjusted the heigth of the clamping disc up and down till I got the burr out.
No burr.. No "nipple" (don't laugh) at the end of the cut!!
Sorry for the late reply, just hope this helps some one out.
Good Luck
R.Stone
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.