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  #11  
Old 01-27-2012, 04:33 PM
smwlocal24 smwlocal24 is offline
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The main reason I feel that the structure being present would make layout more difficult is due to the error associated with the structure. Roofs are pretty much never square, plumb, level, or symmetrical when they are supposed to be. In my experience curves are random and only remotely close to being circular most of the time, which makes choosing a circular curvature that is acceptable for a given project more difficult than it should be. Most guys can't make a circular curve with any respectable degree of accuracy with a radius greater than 20'. I run into the problem of wrapping poorly constructed curvatures often, especially when they are curves with a large radius which is often the case on commercial buildings. I certainly prefer a structure to be present, but it can make for more difficulty if poorly constructed.
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  #12  
Old 02-01-2012, 04:40 PM
cactassdupree cactassdupree is offline
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Originally Posted by ifishalot7 View Post
I thought the purpose of the rosin paper was to be a barrier to keep the the copper from reacting with the asphalt underlayment.I started using it on my jobs for that reason.I personally prefer a substructure.It is much more substantial and gives you something to fasten to,cuts down on noise and cushions against hail.In my experience the lay out is less time consuming with the structure as well.The problem that arises though is when the builder doesn,t take the care to provide a clean and true surface to attach your work to or doesn,t know how to make a proper curve or arch.Here is an example of what I am talking about.Notice how the top is arched but the sides are basically flat.It wouldn,t be so bad if I hadn,t prebuilt and preformed everything prior to arriving at the job based on given diminsions.After all the extra work it caused me,we had a basic geometry lesson on how to bisect a chord find a point and swing an arc.
I've got to agree with the sub-structure. I've built eyebrow louvers in the shop only to have a roofer step on it and it caves in. Or someone will set something on it and BIG dents. Some of those Bay Windows that have been discussed I wonder if the guy going up to do a litle repair or hang Christmas Lights doesn't get a surprize when he steps (tip-toes) on it.. Dupree
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  #13  
Old 02-02-2012, 07:21 AM
roofermarc roofermarc is offline
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Default Agility of a panther

I've stood on the bottom of these where one would lock it to the drip, so as to reach a roof above maybe. But I have the agility of a panther and know where to stand, but You obviously cant stand in the middle of the hood, too steep. The more you think about it, these cant be framed for a sweep, unless the builder really knew what he/she was doing. There hard enough for an exp. hand to get the right height and radius. A framer wouldn't know to have the top measurement less than the bottom for example.
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  #14  
Old 02-02-2012, 07:40 AM
roofermarc roofermarc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifishalot7 View Post
I thought the purpose of the rosin paper was to be a barrier to keep the the copper from reacting with the asphalt underlayment.I started using it on my jobs for that reason.I personally prefer a substructure.It is much more substantial and gives you something to fasten to,cuts down on noise and cushions against hail.In my experience the lay out is less time consuming with the structure as well.The problem that arises though is when the builder doesn,t take the care to provide a clean and true surface to attach your work to or doesn,t know how to make a proper curve or arch.Here is an example of what I am talking about.Notice how the top is arched but the sides are basically flat.It wouldn,t be so bad if I hadn,t prebuilt and preformed everything prior to arriving at the job based on given diminsions.After all the extra work it caused me,we had a basic geometry lesson on how to bisect a chord find a point and swing an arc.
You say you made these with out taking your own measurements, relying on someone else? Man I would never do that unless the person is really qualified.
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  #15  
Old 02-06-2012, 08:06 PM
cactassdupree cactassdupree is offline
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The only luck i've had in carpentry work is if you get to follow an Union Carpenter. Most of them have been taught "Tricks of the Trade so to speak". I still find that field measuring is the only way to do an acceptable job. When I've run into a crummy job I bitch about it and have them fix it with someone who knows what they are doing. One job we couldn't do looked like it was made to be a octagon. I said "You call that round"? The metal follows what ever the substructure does, From drip edge to Copper roofs.. dupree
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  #16  
Old 02-08-2012, 03:32 PM
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The only luck i've had in carpentry work is if you get to follow an Union Carpenter. Most of them have been taught "Tricks of the Trade so to speak".
Nonsense.
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2012, 08:12 PM
Guttermonkey Guttermonkey is offline
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Are you guys double locking your seams? I think smwlocal said he's using battens, which I've done. They looked awesome, but we did have to cut the battens because we can only find them on a continuous arch.
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  #18  
Old 03-10-2012, 02:14 AM
cactassdupree cactassdupree is offline
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Nonsense.
Sorry Rob if I've offended you with my comment. It's just been my experince that if you have to install a copper roof, doormer, etc. If you have something nice to work to your job will not only be easier but will turn out better. And in my experince I have honnestly never had trouble following a good Union carpenter. I know that there are carpenters out there that can build something round that aren't Union. But I'd be willing to bet a weeks paycheck that somewhere down the line they have had someone who has Union in their blood and showed them a trick or two. I'll save you the reply: nonsence dupree

Last edited by cactassdupree; 03-10-2012 at 02:15 AM. Reason: sp
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  #19  
Old 03-10-2012, 03:47 PM
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Absolutely no personal offense taken.
To say that someone is a superior tradesman just because he does or doesn't belong to a union is indefensible.
I've seen good and not so good on both sides.
Blanket statements divide people.
This is a good example.

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But I'd be willing to bet a weeks paycheck that somewhere down the line they have had someone who has Union in their blood and showed them a trick or two.
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  #20  
Old 03-16-2012, 09:42 AM
cactassdupree cactassdupree is offline
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Wink agree

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Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Absolutely no personal offense taken.
To say that someone is a superior tradesman just because he does or doesn't belong to a union is indefensible.
I've seen good and not so good on both sides.
Blanket statements divide people.
This is a good example.
I agree that there are union tradesmen that don't really have the skills needed to call themselves a Tradesman. But for the most part, and there are exceptions to any rule, I prefer to follow a Carpenter that is a Craftsman and I have found that most of the time a union man takes more pride and has been trained better. I know that everyone deserves to make a living and have a job. Perhaps I am limited in my expression of what I am trying to convey. Good Tradesmen (women) don't just fall off trees. Just because you have a hammer and apron doesn't make you a carpenter. I sence we are on different sides of the fence on the Union issue. I Hope you all the best. and will leave it at that. dupree
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